New to Synfig; Does synfig have feature like this? (4 anime)

I am posting this quick question since the anime thread is not up yet.

I’ve been looking around at some quick guides about synfig and i was wondering if there is anywhere/anyway in synfig to find these features:

  1. Smart paint filling (outlines don’t have to be entirely closed). Something similar to RETAS PRO. Here’s a video of what i am talking about. It starts @ 0:42… youtube.com/watch?v=PLy7zdIsQnk#t=00m42s . It is in japanese but you could visually see what i want to accomplish.

  2. Shaky hand (jitter) compensation; automatic thin beginning and thing end; Video of what i mean @ 0:29-0:58 :
    youtube.com/watch?v=XZQNOrur-u8#t=00m29s

3) join line feature (by simply waving cursor over); 1:09 of video right above youtube.com/watch?v=XZQNOrur-u8#t=01m09s .

  1. Thickening line feature (by simply sliding cursor over desired area); zig-zag compensation; shadow/highlight-markup layers (mainly just useful for anime purposes… sort of like several b-line_outlines+fill_regions that are visually distinct in color from normal skin/character color fill_regions, so you can speed through and fill in normal/shadows/highlights real easily, fast, and efficiently; 1:44-2:33 of video right above. youtube.com/watch?v=XZQNOrur-u8#t=01m44s)

That was quite a lot to ask for and type. I REALLY hope there is a feature or combination of features that allow me to achieve the same effects. I at least hope for some workarounds.

If the anime thread/interest is popular or great enough, could you implement some of these features in a simple/intuitive form similar to RETAS (cursor sliding)?

Thank you again so much for the time. Once i learn more about synfig and maybe a little about programming, i’ll try to help in more productive ways.

I have a question too xD.

I’m starting with Synfig. My new Go.

Frame by frame animation combined with transforming (interpoleted frames)?. Something like traditional animation, drawing frames separately but using morphing when it can be used. Very important in Anime style. For now I only know how to make transforming (interpolation) of drawing. When I make new drawing on a new frame it is visible on all frames xD that’s my problem.

1)Inkscape(bucket)>>synfig import svg(synfig only has the ability to link an outline to a region)…But is useless as you want to have as much control as possible with as less vertices and properly planed and linked or animating will be hell(which is more important) in other words you don’t draw you “rig”
“RETAS PRO” is for crappy 4 frames animations from what I see

2)Inkscape has mass (so less/no jitter) and velocity {0.47 can put shapes to bezie }but likewise you are not gonna use them as they are for calligraphy tool resulting in regions(the 0.47 bezie with shapes too) and you want them to be outlines for animation purposes
You might use an external application though viewtopic.php?f=4&t=768&p=3969&hilit=mouse#p3969
and I’m pretty sure synfig has pressure sensitivity for outlines if you have a tablet

3)to some extent with draw tool but only with outline(as regions has a nasty visual bug) please note that there are still 2 lines or more that are “linked”

4)Width tool. you can smart remove vertices to make things smother(actually if you have that many vertices your doing it wrong anyway)
Llike I said at 1) no bucket thus shadow/highlight markup(or whatever that is as I didn’t quite get its function) is useless but the shading done right in synfig beat the crap out of cell shading anyway(gradients are your friends +shade layer +distortion when there not killing the cpu)

What you want ain’t going to happen for a while but there is progress vimeo.com/5392441

But even if this thing would be possible it would not be a good idea as you would not have control as there would be to many vertices that would have to be interpolated because of the differences of the drawing so you’d need lots of drawings for it to animate properly

So the best(or only) workflow in synfig still remains as make draft drawings then rig, animate, morph, and fine tune which is pretty much the same as in any 3d animation package

(I personally don’t think synfig is as limited as you, adrix, say it is… at least in potential)

IF synfig CANNOT do small animations on only parts of a traditional anime style piece, and can ONLY “rig, animate, morph, and fine tune which is pretty much the same as 3d animation” (anime producers DON’T WANT 3d-animation looking effects for characters), then synfig SUCKS for anime production. I mean, why would i even use synfig if it cannot do some of these things required of anime production? Can it even ‘aid’ anime production in terms of ‘special effects’ or multiplaning?!

That’s if what you said was entirely true (that synfig is ONLY for interpolation advantages/ rigging)… Genete says that synfig is still good for anime production so I am looking forward for his answer or any of his friends answers who are more familiar with anime and hand-drawn animations (with little, but still some interpolation).

If indeed synfig cannot do all or some of these effects/features, then I would like to promote the idea of adding such feature/workarounds so that anime fans/traditional animation fans can also use synfig to its max, making synfig THE animation program choice for ALL prospective animators. :slight_smile:

First of all anime production SUCKS BY DEFINITION
What the current anime programs do is have the same tediously stupid workflow and only really help with the drawing, colouring and sfx
Major studio animation that are know for there incredible animation production values like Disney or Ghibli still do it with massive loads of labour to get the tweening done and no major help from software on that part,and the complexity of the drawings suffers(all of the character are simplistic by anime standards)
If synfig would be production ready as to be use by a studio those studios would MASSACRE(visually of course) for it
What you basicly want from what I read is Inkscape meaning you need something to help in the production of drawings and colouring it even has a tweening function but dont expect animations from it… expect to draw allot(slavery allot that is)
The fact that you can in synfig draw a character once shade it and set it up and then carefully manipulate and animate it is a GODSEND
My reference with 3d animation is that if done correctly the animation is fairly smooth dynamic and detailed reminiscent of Disney animation with the added bonus of detail while anime has the detail of the style while having no dynamic and being just 4 frames of animation over and over
On a side note to the ghibli link youtube.com/watch?v=8aT8sk4n … annel_page
EDIT:hmm looks like I haven’t noticed the red stuff…will post response

EDIT:

yea… about that… I sincerely apologize. I posted my wall of text initially as dark green but apparently i realized it was too dark to notice apart from the rest of the quote. plz forgive me :slight_smile:

:confused: Um… if you are so ‘anti-anime/anti-traditional’ then please refrain from adding disheartening comments about the anime style in this post. I do appreciate your helpful tips in terms of pointing me to inkscape ^_^. But as the title of my post plainly states, I am wanting constructive ideas/references/criticisms for ‘anime production’ with ANY possible aid through synfig–NOT people dismissing the anime concept altogether. I apologize if i sounded offensive, but do remember the contexts of my sincere questions–I did not personally attack the ideas and preferences you suggested, I just logically pionted out (with examples also) why your suggestions were not what I was wanting (preferring), so please don’t bash the anime artistry or MY GOALS (along with many others) any further. I am aware it takes hard work with studio assistants, and I am skilled enough to draw many keyframes and tweens if i have to (I am a skilled artist and have been for years). I was just wanting other’s people constructive input on where i should go from here.

Right now, my thinking process is similar to that other cartooner somewhere else in these forums: Pencil for the onionskinning > export to inkscape for vectorizing the lines (and maybe having to paint here also :/) > convert to sif and Import to synfig for better layer controls/animation (multiplane camera… which synfig CAN DO and it GREATLY aids traditional anime work).

For others who are extremely used to synfig and understand anime techniques, I got another question:

Using either inkscape or synfig OR a combination of the 2, is there a way for me to 1) make a vector outline; 2) make a (vector-type) scaleable region that is already filled in?
My main purpose for this is to make scalable vectors so that I can increase the resolution to HD or smaller for streaming/archiving whenever i need to later on–but not only for the outlines but also for the colors (a scalable fully-colored character [complete outline and fill colors] that will not have pixelation when resizing. Can it be done? Or do i have to go back to the scalable outlines made in inkscape, scale them, and re-bucket fill them to make it work? Is there a way to automate this process? May i put some of these up as request for future releases of synfig?

Thank you again for your time ^_^.

I’d say that this is an AMAZINGLY FREAKING GOOD goal for synfig. Isnt’ that what synfig should be aiming at? ^^ And i’ll do my best (my little brother also knows how to program [C++ and java]) to help synfig to achieve this goal… woohoo! Don’t be satisfied with synfig yet, synfig is far from finished ^^. It’ll be the next blender (Blender: polled #1 3D rendering software by graphics tech magazine with MAYA in 8th PLACE AND THE BEATING THE OTHER GOOD ONE WHICH GOT 2ND ^_^).

Hi there,

I think “traditional workflow” has much more sensitivity expression potential, and will never can be totally replaced by fully auto-tweened animation.

That being said, the auto-tween concept can be really helpfull on some simple movements, and save lotta time in a traditional 2d workflow, if used wisely.

I think it’s already possible to have a “japanese anime”-like style in synfig, if you learn how to use/set up the existing tools to have this result
(which are not the same than in Retas, you’ll have to adapt yourself . Look at Ankama studio who can achieve to get this style with flash… wich has a more similar workflow/tools with synfig than with Retas… ).

For filling my zone, the best way I found for now is to use the auto-fill option with the fill color set to alpha transparent, so I still can see my sketch under and
have my zones already filled, just have to change it’s color value to get it colored.

Don’t give up with Synfig, it’s definitly worth the time to learn how to use it ^^

1)(first red paragraph) A valid point as detail is important in anime but to get things animated you have simplify atleast say an animation cage
Synfig strength isn’t drawing but animating so you cant brute force your way out by drawing all the frames so everything has to get animated in the and in some way(note the emphasis meaning that I’m not talking about moving painstakingly vertex by vertex)
The true Synfig’s greatness is its cleverness with how this is achieved(links lines cages calculations and whatnot thus what I was talking about riging)
Also don’t think I’m setting for is simple details
What I want to ultimately achieve is surpassing it to the level of actual Japanese illustrations(like those in visual novels) and still be animated
2)‘thinning beginning and end’ Actually it is possible now that I think about it(but currently not implemented) also you can manualy edit the width with width points and will be further developed with independent width points(by Genete)
4)That just animation skill, there professionals they do this in there sleep and not having smooth animations is a limitation not a benefit and in some anime movies painstakingly try to make them as smooth as possible
5)You can cell shade that’s what the regions are for!(are you blind to your own example?) Gradients are for extra shading you can’t get any other animation package as the don’t have gradient curves that act just like blines

So let me summrise
If you want a more traditional flow use it in conjunction with inkscape
If you want to animate with to the full synfig capabilities use my points throughout this thread
Synfig can SURPASS anime level of details if used correctly

Finally, some guidance and wisdom AND EXPERIENCE (with references) that I’ve been waiting patiently for ^_^. I have known from the start that Synfig has good untapped potential. I’ll be browsing around the forums/site more and learn more of the synfig tools that i personally need.

About what you said about the zones… one other question… after being fillied, can you rescale both the vector and the ‘zone’ together fluidly? Like if I were wanting to increase the overall resolution of my animation to HD from 640x480 or something, will the outline and color and other encapsulated/linked vectors and colors scale correctly with more fine-tuning?

Thank you again for the help and the alpha channel suggestion. I’ll do that (for the shadow layer thing i was wanting). I am definitely not giving up on synfig–i only said that to make a point.

Edit: @ adrix; Thanks for clarifying. Thank really helps. Still, even with gradient-assisted cell shading, the smoothness (even with that 1st example of mine) is too smooth for what i am looking for. Its almost like, if i were to watch something like Aladdin that has been remastered with the smoothness shading of what that 1st example was talking about, I’d be disappointed–not because its not dynamic or comlex, more because it seemed ‘off’ from a nostalgic (artistic) Aladdin point of view. I guess what i am wanting to preserve is the “art” factor or “expression” element that Animtim was talking about. So i guess my aim right now is to maybe start with a lil’ traditional, and tweek some of synfig’s interpolation–maybe even greatly retricting how smooth i want synfig to go in order to preserve that ‘still cartoony’ animation transition.

I’m interested in examples of this as long as there are not from 3d animations

Well, according the mechanics of ‘argument from silence’, the fact of the lack of such examples may actually support why it may not be well recieved by the majority of it’s prospective audiences. Plus, in my edit above, I’m trying to work around stuff and see if it can be accomplished if i restrict some things. Regardless, be weary of making too many ‘definitive’ statements cuz some of them are not as kindly recieved (in a kind, simple, question and answer thread) and was probably the confusion we had earlier. No problem tho ^_^.

I’ll see what i can do with what i got.

I wasn’t asking about morphing or nurbs xD I want to know how to add different drawing on different frames and don’t see both drawing on all frames xD I want to know how animate traditionally in Synfig xD

I heard from a guy in “ongoing projects” thread or something had a way for putting his own traditional sketches into synfig.

Try the program pencil for the drawing part (if you want onion skin feature which is similar to a cartoonist’s light table).

Then import that into another program called inkscape which can convert your drawings into vectors (if you like vectors).

Then the next part is using a ‘something_tosif’ converter to convert the export type inkscape has to a compatible type for synfig import. Then you put it into synfig for whatever animation you want. If you want normal stuff, then pencil or inkscape has some basic export to movie options already. Synfig is powerful for postprocessing and some animations.

Sorry for interrupt this interesting conversation you’re having but…
What should be the name of the forum dedicated to usage of Synfig in Anime Style?
This post and its replies will be deleted once I move the thread to the new forum.
-G

Maybe:

Anime Specific Help: Discussions about using Synfig to create Anime style animations.

???

Matt

And maybe it should be a subforum of the Animation forum? And in that case, maybe a Frame by Frame subforum, for issues related to trying to handle fbf in Synfig, as well? Or is that getting to nit-picky?

Matt

I would suggest a title with both ‘Animating Anime and other Frame-by-Frame Oriented Projects’ since both phrase pop out to potential users/prospective interests.

I think something along those lines will work. At least a mention of Frame By Frame somewhere near the mentioning of Anime.

I am pretty much fine with ‘any’ title at this point.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Don’t make me look at anime when I want to talk fbf techniques! Noooooooooooooooooo!

:smiley:

Matt

I would prefer anime development because anime has a lot of things going in to make it(shading style of line special fx) and animating is limited to well animating

Development releases have svg import built in, but you have to collapse all object live paths and whatnot to paths and save to simple svg and then use import from the file menu
And it works!(except a bugs I think that I don’t get)

The argument of silence is actually a logical fallacy
If all anime production is currently as your described,then the workflow will not permit it be used in anime
Which I believe is the actual reason and one of synfigs strength
Also It IS actually use in anime in at least one particular anime youtube.com/watch?v=CLhyx2300Ec
but is limited and not full shading
BOOBS nuff said

Ha! A man after my own heart