Please don’t create a specific anime forum part. Why should japanese style have a special place with synfig? It’s hardly animation at all. (ok, that I said to provoke).
There’s plenty of forums to discuss these issues; "Synfig general forum, “Animation discussion”, “Drawing related help” etc.
If a specific anime forum I’ll insist on a cartoon-forum, a rotoscope-forum, a cut-out-forum as well. And I’ll figure out a few more.
hey hlim103, stop quoting me what I’ve not said. I said this:
In Synfig you can disable/enable paths points along the time and it does the needed interpolation to show a path with more or less control points. So in Synfig you can convert a very complex path into a simple two points path in a few steps. This is the only approaching that Synfig already have about morphing (that for example Anime Studio doesn’t have). That was I mean by morphing feature. And that can be used for Anime Style or not.
Regardless the draw effects (shading, line styles, details, etc.) the most important and difficult thing to achieve by a 2D vector animation program with tweening aid is to do complex head and body turns that hide and show different parts of a 3D object in a 2D world. I don’t know any 2D animation program that can do that if you remove its FBF animation module. Synfig hasn’t a FBF animation module now. Probably it can have a FBF module but just that, a fbf module like the one that Pencil has.
What you’re asking to have in Synfig is the Holy Grial man!:
That request is not easy to achieve at this state of art of the technology. Hand-drawn animation is what you traditionaly do in a paper with a pencil. Computers have aided to directly draw in a raster canvas using natual media interface (Wacom Cyntiq) so you have computer aid for fbf animation. The applicaitons that uses raster support has evolved to aid a lot the user drawing needs with amazing features (like the video examples you’ve shown). But remember they all work in a raster environment. That means that the information applied by the user and by the program during edition is stored in a raster file. What happen if you started to draw in a 400x300 canvas and after end the drawing you realize that you need a 4000x3000 canvas for a theatre show. You have to rescale the image and clean it with a raster filter program and the aid of the uman interaction to give the big image have the same look than the previous. Or you have to vectorize the image and scale it after vectorized. Lot of work anyway and for a single frame.
In a Vector 2D Animation program like Synfig, the aim is to eliminate (as much as possible) the tweening between keyframes and at the same time work in a space and time idependent world. You can scale the canvas in Synfig that the final render would (reasonably) look the same as the original size. That’s the power of 2D vector animation programs: try to avoid tweening and scale independance.
Regarding to the discussion. I hate to read long posts with lots of quotes so I’m not able to follow all your arguments. So forgive me is I can comment something already mentioned or affirirmed.
I honestly think that you’re boarding on Synfig on the wrong way. You first state: “New to Synfig; Does synfig have feature like this? (4 anime)”. And I’ll reply you:
No. And wrong concept. Synfig works all its features in a vector world and not in a raster world. Paths are defined by 2D points and tangents at those points. Then some layers (outline and region) uses those paths to produce a raster image depending on other parameters (color, opacity, feather, etc.) . There is not “slightly closed paths” in Synfig. Paths are Bezier splines.
In Synfig you can draw with natual media using the Draw tool. There is a smoothing parameter of the tool to calculate the bezier spline that will represent the stroke the user has produced. It can give you the feature you need or not. Test it to see if it works for you.
In Synfig you cannot redraw a beizer spline using natual media. It would be a interesting feature (repeat the stroke and adapt the final result to be a average of the previous hand strokes). So once you draw the stroke with the natural media input you obtain a bezier spline and later you need to modify the definition of the bezier spline modifying its parameters (using a visual interface, yes, but parametrized)
Regarding to thin beginning and end it is possible to achieve now by modifying the code. Not a big deal.
You can link start and end of vertices of different bline splines by a pair of clicks. They are not merged in a single layer thouhg but all the parameters can be linked and then the layers encapsulated, so it can act as a single layer/bezier.
Thickening line feature: You have a width tool. It works that way. Test it and feed back.
Back to the main, please learn Synfig, understand how does it work and ask for feasible features. And do not forget that Synfig is free (not need to pay to have it), opensource (you can modify it for your needs within same license) and that people that makes Synfig grow are volunteers, so it means that ask for features is free but not granted to be implemented.
Please, do not reply for reply. I won’t be able to read a very long post again. Even I don’t know how I have written this one.
Precisely why we need one
While in cartoons, rotoscope or cut out you know exactly how the workflow works
Currently anime in synfig isn’t as clear because it has not been discussed yet, anime is fairly complex and you have to get allot of detail to animate what
In the traditional approach was done with brute force drawing and synfig’s animating isn’t brute force so we have to develop techniques from scratch
So a anime forum would give us a place where we can study, exemplify and explain while trying to find ways to improve different styles and make it easier and faster to develop and animate
I know workflow for anime, fbf for extremes and breakdowns interpolated in-betweens, with transforms (not morphing). Outline with flat colours and cliped higher layer with multiply for shadows xD and of course painted background.
I think its not something complex the basics are the same like in other animations, only style diferent, but I like some not 100% manga style like One Piece and Dragon Ball.
This thread has gotten way more attention than it deserves, but here goes…
I agree (with the why the separate forum bit… there’s some good anime out there). (or was it a dream :Þ)
It seems to me that what gives anime it’s flavour is much more to do with style than a peculiar workflow, and the techniques used should be relevant to everyone, but do enlighten if I’m wrong
Perhaps if in the future when the forums start getting swamped with hoards of anime artists, it could be a good idea to give them their own section then?
Yeah? What about FF7 Advent Children? What about Appleseed? And there are plenty of others, of course. But he’s right. XD Most anime “series” are indeed crappy 4 fps because they’re on speed/budget production. However, a good MOVIE would have more frames, such as the ones from Studio Ghibli which have pretty SMOOTH animation style and yet being a splendid anime. Believe it or not, you can acquire just the same perfection, perhaps even better, with Synfig if you just know HOW to use it.
You can do EVERYTHING Retas can do with Photoshop/GIMP/Paint and Flash combo. Why would you even bother using Synfig? You’re forgetting that Synfig was created to provide better tools, whether or not similar to others, to make animation easier and quicker without the need of redrawing frames. But You can still do traditional if you just know “how”. I have, of course. And yes, it can also do awesome special effects, even for anime style.
And dawwww, Retas and Toonz are still pretty good softwares. Although true, they’re also labor intensive, so you need a whole DAMN STUDIO to finish a good animation but it takes a looooooooooong time.
Okay, I’m not reading the rest of the posts that are bound to this arguments. First I’ll read if there’s something “constructive” in the other posts of this thread, then I’ll give my opinion on HOW to make Synfig be used for Anime.
If the feature can be added, pretty good! But if the bloke wants “Anime Style” and NOT “Manga Style” then he’d have to replicate a pencil. Meaning, the stroke width should STAY at 1 pixel.
As for a “separate forum” instead of keeping the name “Anime Style” or something like that you could more discuss on “Traditional Capabilities of Synfig”. After all, Synfig can do a lot anyway, what else do you need? For instance, some people would need FBF ability, or at least those who prefer to work with it. I think I know how you could sort that out. But I will only say it once we have a forum. ^^ Don’t wanna make this post too long.